In this powerful episode of the "Gay in America" podcast, a Tennessee mother of two transgender teens shares her compelling journey of resilience and determination. Faced with the harsh reality of anti-trans bias in Tennessee, Jessica found herself at the forefront of a culture war, navigating the challenges of acceptance, understanding, and support for her children.
The episode begins with Jessica's poignant recounting of the moment she arrived in Minnesota, a state she now calls a refuge. Overwhelmed with emotion, she describes seeing a giant trans flag at her neighbor's house and feeling like she had finally found water after traversing a desert. It sets the stage for an intimate exploration of Jessica's experiences, moving beyond the headlines to reveal the personal struggles, heartbreaks, and triumphs.
As the host guides us through Jessica's story, we learn about the initial signs of her children's gender dysphoria and the family's journey through crisis, counseling, and the discovery of a supportive community in Minnesota. The narrative unfolds with a raw honesty, as Jessica reflects on her own moments of tears, prayer, and the sacrifices made for the well-being of her children.
The episode delves into the complexities of leaving Tennessee, a place that was once home but became increasingly unsafe for Jessica's transgender children. We hear about the challenges faced within the family, including the unsupportive reaction of the children's father and the subsequent separation.
However, amidst the struggles, there is a sense of hope and determination. Jessica shares her efforts to rebuild their lives in Minnesota, finding support in the community, and reestablishing herself as a licensed massage therapist. The episode concludes with a glimpse into Jessica's future aspirations, both for her family and her involvement in a coalition supporting families relocating from unsafe states.
Overall, this episode is a poignant exploration of one mother's journey through adversity, resilience, and the pursuit of a better life for her transgender children. It sheds light on the broader issue of families seeking refuge and acceptance in the face of discrimination, providing a compelling narrative that resonates with compassion and understanding.
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Jessica (00:00):
We rolled up. It had been a long couple of days just getting there and all of the things that had happened and I look over at the next door neighbor's house, I was already just trying to take a deep breath and we pull up and the house next door has a giant trans flag above the door and I just felt like the person that got through the desert. I found water and I sat in my car and sobbed.
Host (00:25):
Gay in America is an oral history podcast sharing experiences of gay people from all orientations, backgrounds, and ages in America. Our goal is to inspire each other to live our best gay lives and help us all understand that our shared experiences unite us as a community. Our community is well aware. The anti-transgender agenda has consequences. Today's guest had to flee Nashville, Tennessee after two of her four children came out as trans and it became impossible to live in the state. It is sadly just one of thousands of such stories but keep listening to find out how this mother is fighting for her children's lives.
Jessica (01:15):
I'm Jessica, a mother of four, two of which are amazing trans sons, 13 and 15. We had been in Tennessee for about 15 years and decided it was no longer safe and we have recently uprooted everything and relocated to Minnesota. I can say looking back hindsight and all of that mixed with some mom guilt, I definitely can look back and say that at an early age I knew that something was going on and sadly had no idea, which my child didn't know either one of them at the time, just discomfort. And the older they got, the more uncomfortable they appeared to be. And I just put a lot of effort into trying to make them feel comfortable and confident and build that up, not knowing really where the pain was coming from.
(02:16):
I remember them being like eight years old and I'd walk in and this super happy, carefree kid would just be crying alone in their room and I'd say, what's going on? I don't know, I just don't feel right. And I didn't know what that was. And so we'd try to explore it and then they'd go about their way and there was no clear signs even looking back there, but we definitely didn't know something was going on. And then just kind of fast forward a little bit, the older that they got, the closer they got to things changing and just maturing, the more it became very evident where they could direct a lot of this discomfort.
(02:56):
Of course it was during Covid and all these other things happening all at once. And with my older one being 12 years old, which I have I think confirmed scientifically is the hardest year of life for any human being. So you couple that with being 12. We just started at a new private school, which was probably the worst case scenario at the time. Covid happening and all of a sudden we're spiraling and we're in crisis and there's things coming out that, okay, now we know something really needs to be dealt with. What do we do? And we can't find counseling. Covid the very beginning of covid. And I just remember feeling like, okay, let's handle the crisis. It's figure out what going, what's going on and spending hours just trying to find somebody to help. We wound up finding an amazing lady that through telehealth just jumped in and started working with my child and very, very quickly we got the term gender dysphoria handed to us and we all of a sudden had something tangible that we could research and we could, okay, what do we do?
(03:56):
And I just felt like there was the initial sigh of relief for everyone. My child like, okay, I know what this is now I know what I need to do. And just feverishly just researching and learning and taking it as much as I could. And like I said, the very beginning, we were very much in crisis and so that was our focus. And then when things started to settle, it was like okay. And we started to have the conversations and we started to just make sure that we reassured you are loved and you are amazing and we're going to figure this out. Well, looking back, do I wish that I could say, oh, I knew this was coming and I just paved this beautiful path for my child to just walk right out and just be who they were. They always knew they could be who they were and I always tried to make sure that all four of my kids knew they're all creative and amazing and wonderful and whatever, and whoever you are, let me boost that for you. But I didn't know. And so it's hard because I wish I could have made that path easier, but since then it's my life, it's my heart, and they've come a long way.
Host (04:54):
After struggling to adapt to her son's transition, Jessica's youngest child also began struggling with gender dysphoria. While you might think the first experience perfectly prepared her for the second one, well.
Jessica (05:09):
No, it's completely different and it's just nothing I knew nothing. I felt like I knew nothing again. But it's kind of amazing to see them kind of come together both completely different paths of getting there and understanding and learning about themselves, but they have each other and it's been amazing and I have just the most amazing family that I could have ever imagined.
Host (05:32):
Jessica is also figuring out how to take care of herself during this difficult time.
Jessica (05:42):
First step for myself was probably tears and prayer and not tears of disappointment or it was just tears of how did I not know this? Needing to feel like how do I learn everything I can learn? How do I come alongside and how did I miss this kind of thing. I don't know. This coming year is my year of therapy. Now that we're here and we're getting settled in, I feel like it's finally time to kind of start doing those steps for me that I maybe should have done before. But like I said, we started in crisis and that was my focus. There was nothing else I could do but just save my child. I mean, we were working with crisis teams and we were suicidal. There was a lot. So my focus was just primarily on them and dealing with honestly the aftermath of everything. That very quickly came from basically our entire circle, family, friends, church, everything. Haven't really done the part for myself.
Host (06:53):
And she's trying to participate in society during a culture war where her children are the enemy.
Jessica (07:01):
Obviously I was the frontline and every interaction with everybody that we had was kind of protecting and educating and just that interaction has to happen because before anybody sees your kid, you got to protect them. And if they're not safe, if they're not going to respect them, they're not going to have that interaction. And so it was a very exhausting, felt like a battle. It's like your whole world. All of a sudden you have to change every way you've talked to somebody. You have to initiate relationships over again and see are they safe? Is this something that's going to keep being in your life?
Host (07:39):
There have been significant losses in their lives.
Jessica (07:42):
It started with family members first, several of which thankfully my older two boys, my brothers a few aunts here and there, uncles were fantastic. Unfortunately, our closest family, the ones that we saw every week that my kids grew up with, still to this day, almost four years later, cannot reconcile it with their faith. And so yeah, my kids have been called an abomination. They have been told that it just doesn't even matter. But yeah, it was family first and that's kind of been the most devastating. I think these are people that they trusted and they were brave enough to say, this is who I am, this is who I am at my core. And they were rejected. I haven't quite figured out if there's a coming back from that or not. The next was friends and that came down to my friends, to their friends. And I can honestly say probably 90% of the people especially because during that time in 2020 and everything was so stirred up and everybody was talking about it, whether it was relevant to them or not, everybody had something to say and we either heard it. People would directly text my child and say, well, if you're not here to do this, this is what God put you here for. There's no point in you living.
(09:09):
Or they would just leave. They would never want a conversation. They'd never wanted to try to understand. They just left. And then you go down to church and it was something that the kids were there. And I can remember one Sunday, I'm a guest preacher or whatever, pastor was there and looked right out the crowd before he even started talking. And I don't know what it was even prompted by. And he said, if you're a man that thinks you're trapped in a woman's body or a woman that thinks you're trapped in a man's body, you're messed up in the head.
(09:47):
Here. You trust these people that are standing up there. These people are loving and they love God. You trust them. And that's what was being said and promoted by this place that I took my kids to. And so obviously that was the end of that, which led to a whole wrestling of trying to figure out just separation and learning that people will disappoint you and people are separate and just going through that whole process on our own. But I can tell you that my children want nothing to do with any of it, and I don't blame them. We're just processing what the church likes to blame certain people for doing. They're doing themselves and they're hurting and they're destroying. I mean, they've crushed my kids. How do you tell a 12-year-old? I know your family isn't here and I know that your friends have turned on you and I know now that people are telling you God doesn't love you, but really it's going to be okay. And yeah...
Host (10:56):
Things in Tennessee got worse before they got better.
Jessica (11:00):
My kids have been through a lot and it would get to the point where they were afraid to go out to the grocery store with me because they wanted me. If somebody addressed them incorrectly, they wanted me to correct them. I don't make a big deal. I'm like, oh, you mean you know this? But it got to the point where they were, the way that the culture was in Tennessee, they were afraid of how somebody might react if I did correct them. And so it was easier not to have to be in that situation because they didn't want to feel bad. They didn't want to not be validated by falling out of the house every time. But they also were in fear of how people would react if they were corrected and they stood up for themselves. So by the time we left, my kids were so isolated, they had self isolated other than going to counseling and going to do certain things, they didn't want to leave the house. They had no friends. They didn't want to try to make friends anymore. Anybody that they did know before, there was just too much there. They didn't want to be known from the people thought they were previously. And it's just been a lot. This is the state, this is the place you call home and what is home supposed to be? Home is safe and it's not. You're not welcome. And how do you understand that? How do you reconcile that it's not okay?
(12:16):
And the further down they got, they both were extremely depressed and they didn't want to go out. And we started the conversation pretty early on of if we can get out of here, would you want to do that? Do you want to find somewhere that's safe? And then as the bills passed and our care got taken, they knew we can't be here. We can't be here. They didn't want to be here. Just like I said, they didn't leave the house. We explored several options. We were thinking about Washington, we were thinking about here, we're thinking about there. I do have family up here, our only supportive family. And when Minnesota became a refuge state, we knew that that's what we needed to do. Unfortunately, I have had some difficulties with our current family situation that their father was not supportive. It was a battle to get to the point that we could leave and get here, which we have now done, but the kids want it out and they repeatedly say, I hate this because it's so unfair that I have to give up what I want just because of who I am. They said, I wish Tennessee was different. I would stay but I can't be here. And so...
Host (13:33):
The children's father struggled to understand and ultimately made his choice.
Jessica (13:39):
So his initial reaction was encouraging in the sense that when I had the first conversation, because the kids opened up to me first and I went to him and said, this is what it's looking like. And at first it wasn't a whole lot said other than, well, I love my kids. I said, okay, we can start with that. That's great. Unfortunately, after that there was never any educating. There was never any supporting. Yes, he loves his kids. Unfortunately everything that I started, the support group, all the things I did, he didn't show up, he didn't educate. When I would leave the house, he chose to put on conservative talk radio loud enough for the kids to hear. I would come home and they'd say, oh, well that was really fun. Dad had on a show that just said I had a mental illness and it was always when I wasn't home. It's been a huge challenge. He did not want to get them out of the state. He didn't understand. He thought, you're just being dramatic. It's fine. What's the big deal? He chose not to see it. He chose not to be involved. It's been very damaging on the children. So we are currently separating, and so I hope that he gets healthier and I hope that he learns and I hope that he can be intentional with how he needs to meet his kids as who they are, and I don't think he's yet done that.
Host (15:07):
There are two older brothers who are 27 and 24 years old and live in other states responded differently.
Jessica (15:15):
Their response is, that's awesome. What do I call 'em? That was it. And they've been the biggest supporters since day one. Yeah, I'm very proud of my kids. They've always been supportive anyway, just in general. But yeah, they didn't bat an eye with their brothers and if anything, it's actually brought them closer together because there's a pretty big age gap and they really go out of their way to be extra supportive and to learn, and I think their biggest challenge was I'm totally supportive mom, but I'm just afraid for them.
Host (15:50):
Escaping Tennessee would turn out to be a really big challenge.
Jessica (15:55):
Their father was not supportive at the time, so it was just really trying to explain and get him to understand why this is so important. It's literally transferring everything of schools of their care, figuring out everything's new and everything's different. All of a sudden we got the go ahead in a very short amount of time, let's turn this around and go and leaving everything. This is the only place they've known even though they know they want to go, it was hard. It was very hard and change is not easy for them. Anyway, all the logistics of getting up here.
Host (16:29):
Things improved when Jessica uprooted the family and moved them to a safer place.
Jessica (16:35):
We rolled up. It had been a long couple of days just getting there and all of the things that had happened and nothing went smoothly on my actual move, but we pulled up and I look over at the next door neighbor's house. We'd never seen this actual house we were printing near at first. The whole street is just literally covered with rainbow flags and I was already just trying to take a deep breath and we pull up and the house next door has a giant tra flag above the door and I just felt I literally was the person that got through the desert. I found water and I sat in my car and sobbed. We made it. It's all I need to know. We made it.
Host (17:21):
Now living in a safer community in Minnesota, Jessica is faced with rebuilding their lives and what could be described as a transgender refugee camp.
Jessica (17:33):
It's been harder than expected. There's a ton of resources here and that's amazing, but there's such a need and there's such an influx of people coming from other states that there's wait lists everywhere, but they are doing such an amazing job of trying to find interim care for people as things open up like the two hospitals here, they're both having to build their departments because they have a 14 month wait list because everybody's coming here, but they're doing amazing and they'll send you out resources and other people that are kind of standing in that gap to kind of help you in the meantime. So far we've had an excellent time. Finding medical care is easier than anything I ever could have imagined. After everything we went through in Tennessee and just starting to reestablish immediately in this neighborhood that we moved into, it was such support and you're not alone and we've got you and just building community very quickly and easily making a lot of connections.
Host (18:45):
Jessica is a licensed massage therapist. She left her thriving practice in Nashville and is now establishing herself in a new community.
Jessica (18:55):
Getting the kids settled is the priority, and then aside from that, just really starting to get into a lot of different organizations and things they have up here that I can step in and do what I want to do. We're in this small town in Minnesota. Nobody knows me, and so I'm literally starting over after 26 years in this field. It's scary a little bit. I know it's going to work out and I'm confident of that, but it's a little scary. But I did just find a space. I've got an amazing storefront and a little small quaint downtown and I'm just going to go with it and I'm going to trust that it's all going to work out and I'm going to go from there, but I will unfortunately have to be working a little bit more hours and doing a lot of things. That's the hard part with this is that I really want to focus on them and it's going to be a little bit out of balance for a little bit.
(19:40):
And like I said, we're essentially restarting in a new state. We're restarting. I'm restarting as a single parent and we're building our community, building our circle, and it's just what's need to be done for now, but it's the best thing we've ever done, but it's definitely not the easiest thing we've ever done and I know that it'll be worth it and I know this is where they need to be because I can see the relief on their faces every time, every time we go out. It's just not the same. Everybody they meet knows them only as who they're, and that is something that I would do this a million times over for.
Host (20:15):
She's focused on trying to get things settled right now, but I wondered what she wants their future to look like.
Jessica (20:23):
I want them happy and thriving and whatever that is going to take is what comes next. That's it. Literal ultimate goal. I want them happy and I want them thriving, not existing, not hiding. So we are just doing everything that we can. I have got groups set up and just every kind of care, we've kind of created a little retreat at our new home. I feel like it's just kind of their little cocoon and I just keep getting the word refuge and I feel like it's for them and I want it to be for anybody that comes in and I don't know why, but I feel like there's going to be a lot of more families that are in the situation coming in.
Host (20:58):
Jessica sees a bigger picture too.
Jessica (21:02):
I have been in contact with a group that's creating a coalition to help specifically with families relocating from unsafe states. So we're meeting soon and I don't know what the work is going to look like, but I said I need to be a support for these families still in it. We're not on the other side yet, but we're here and my heart is just to be whatever I need to be for them. Above and beyond that, like I said, we're just trying to get them out and build their circle that I need them to know how loved. I need people to see them. I need them to see people see them and have those friendships and people that they can go to because they haven't had that for a very long time. Above and beyond that, I kind of feel like I'm getting involved in a whole lot of stuff. All of a sudden it's just being able to sit across the table from somebody that gets it. And you don't have to preface anything. You don't have to justify anything. You can say what you need to say and get the support you need and brag about your kids. That's priceless and everybody needs it. Nobody needs to go through this alone and know or feel like there's anything wrong.
Host (22:08):
Nationwide. There are thousands of parents right now who are in similar situations trying to figure out how to get their families to a safe place. Jessica's been in touch with a lot of them.
Jessica (22:20):
Is always been my heart to be involved and to do as much with this as I can. And it's like that's my heart and passion to just sit with the parents. And so I'm like, I just feel like, okay, where are we going with this? We're going to do it. But it's super exciting. We keep making connections, we keep getting more things going and I don't know exactly where it's going to go, but we've already got so many things in place and just, it's kind of awesome how I'm already seeing how these things are all going to start fitting together and that it's going to grow into something and go into circles that it's not in yet. We're all in it together.
Host (22:59):
We met Aiden in a previous episode. He and Jessica are currently working together to help build support for parents of transgender children nationwide.
Jessica (23:08):
There were so many families when all of this started to come out and if you go from being shocked to angry to sad, to just defeated, you just cycle through all of these emotions and what do we do next? And you just stand there feeling like you're reeling. You feel like every time you start to get your footing, it's like something else comes and knocks you over that you're so busy just struggling to survive that you can't really think outside of, well, what do we do next? And we had families that were planning on sending their kids out of state to live with family members because they couldn't move. It's not easy custody situations or jobs or health reasons. There's so many reasons people can't or don't feel like they can make the move. I have been reached out to by a lot of people recently.
(23:48):
They're like, can you just help me? How did you figure out where you were going? The first thing I need to figure out is I don't know where I want to go. And so I think, like I said, there's a lot that made the initial move, and I think there's a lot now that as you realize, every appeal that comes up and it just gets put back down, they realize this isn't going to be as quick as we thought maybe it might be, and it's not going away right now. I do believe it will. I am eternally optimistic that most opposition comes before a big change, and I do feel like it's growing pains and it's going to happen, but I have no idea how long that's going to take. And so in the meantime, these kids are in the middle of it, and I want to do anything I can to help educate people or just be there or just say, this is my experience, this is how I did it, and if there's anything that I can do, I will help you do that.
(24:40):
That's all I can offer. But I think there's going to be a lot more people that initially were scared, but now that they're in it and they're in it more long-term, it fuels something that might not be there at the beginning when you're kind of in shock. And I think there's going to be a lot more people that are leaving. I definitely just want to encourage anybody that has any means it is worth it, even though it's hard. And also just anybody that can't leave, I get it. I understand and I feel for that and just want to be there any way that I can.
Host (25:16):
In the meantime, Jessica and her children are enjoying a bit of peace for now.
Jessica (25:21):
We're getting there. My 13-year-old now for the first time in several years, wants to start back at actual school, go to public school, which is huge because we've been homeschooling because they've not been comfortable leaving the house. So I feel like that is a huge, massive step. We've got the next few weekends, we've got a couple of teen groups coming up that are specifically to help teams meet each other in a safe space, so I'm super excited about that. I feel like we're finally getting settled enough that we can start doing that and take those steps. And I'm so optimistic they're coming out of their shells so much more. They are laughing and just even moving around the house is a big deal. We're not just isolating the room all the time. There's laughter back in the house. You can just see the peace and the relief on them. And I know it hasn't all sunk in and I know that we have a lot to heal from, but it's happening and they know it too. And it's absolutely worth any and everything that we've gone through.
Host (26:20):
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